PLEASE EXPLAIN

[Dodge]

Thank crappity smack for football , beer and Milfs

[big_cup]

Thank crappity smack for football , beer and Milfs     

Ha ha,

cant fault you Dodge

[NoCarpPlease]

I've had the same conversation with tony Marshall a couple of times .... He doesn't see the river circuit in the midlands (what's left of it) lasting more than another 10 to 15 years , because the youngest anglers on it are mid 40s like me.

Back to club matches then!

[joffmiester]

Thank god for the good old days today I went fishing at a section we haven't used for years in fact the farmer allows boats to moor on the length I fished hemp and tares no pressure no moaning a good laugh with my mate catching fish and some quality fish at that isn't that what's fishing is all about plus park behind your peg

Dodge football milf and beer can't fault you

[Statler]

The order you have put these in says something about the age of those contributing
I would have had milf, beer, football

[big_cup]

The order you have put these in says something about the age of those contributing
I would have had milf,  beer, football

You wouldn't know what to do with one at your age

[Statler]

Oh I thought it said
Milk, beer, football

[lloydy]

My lad much prefers canals to commercials

[joffmiester]

I would if we had the amount you do use them or loose them

[tomscholey]

People can think what they like about the system, but Barnsley fished within the rules, and now have qualified.

This is a discussion that should have been had four years ago when the new system was put in place - as it was always going to happen. A lot of the comments seem like sour grapes to me.

Other than Dorking, I daresay that Barnsley represent England's best chance of bringing home a medal anyway.

Sadly, it says a lot about the state of UK team fishing that 'lesser' teams don’t want to take part. Everybody is under the impression that it is because the such teams don't feel that they can compete with the 'big three' but is this really the case? Last year on Newark Dyke, a single lost fish stopped my Trentmen team from winning the event, and Browning Hotrods came close the year before - but both of our teams, although no richer in talent than a lot of other teams, have adopted a positive attitude and been and had a go.

In the events favour, it has sent three different teams to represent England over four years - only Barnsley has been twice.

I must admit, I was intitially very much against the idea of the event, as I thought it was nice to let the winner of the Division One have the chance of fishing a big international final. We are rapidly running out of good team events though, and I will be sad to see this go, as it is another prestigious team fishing event dissappearing from the calendar - plus some much needed sponsorship that no doubt made it a lot easier for England's representative club to put up a good show abroad.

Off the top of my head, the teams that represented England abroad wouldn't have been that different anyway as over the last four years again only three different teams have won the Division One. Ironically though, Barnsley wouldn’t have been at all...

2013- Shakespeare Superteam (Trent & Mersey)
2012 -Daiwa Dorking (Bristol Avon)
2011- Daiwa Dorking (New Junction Canal)
2010- Kamasan Starlets (Trent)

[joffmiester]

I take it Preston are not sponsoring another 4 years then Tom :( :( :(
i'm sorry if thats the case but you all know my feels on this the one's that should sponsor this event is the Angling Trust full stop

[Dodge]

People can think what they like about the system, but Barnsley fished within the rules, and now have qualified.

This is a discussion that should have been had four years ago when the new system was put in place - as it was always going to happen. A lot of the comments seem like sour grapes to me.

Other than Dorking, I daresay that Barnsley represent England's best chance of  bringing home a medal anyway.

Sadly, it says a lot about the state of UK team fishing that 'lesser' teams don’t want to take part. Everybody is under the impression that it is because the such teams don't feel that they can compete with the 'big three' but is this really the case? Last year on Newark Dyke, a single lost fish stopped my Trentmen team from winning the event, and Browning Hotrods came close the year before - but both of our teams, although no richer in talent than a lot of other teams, have adopted a positive attitude and been and had a go.

In the events favour, it has sent three different teams to represent England over four years  - only Barnsley has been twice.

I must admit, I was intitially very much against the idea of the event, as I thought it was nice to let the winner of the Division One have the chance of fishing a big international final. We are rapidly running out of good team events though, and I will be sad to see this go, as it is another prestigious team fishing event dissappearing from the calendar - plus some much needed sponsorship that no doubt made it a lot easier for England's representative club to put up a good show abroad.

Off the top of my head, the teams that represented England abroad wouldn't have been that different anyway as over the last four years again only three different teams have won the Division One. Ironically though, Barnsley wouldn’t have been at all...

2013- Shakespeare Superteam (Trent & Mersey)
2012 -Daiwa Dorking (Bristol Avon)
2011- Daiwa Dorking (New Junction Canal)
2010- Kamasan Starlets (Trent)

Don't want to take part ?
It was way way too expensive to contemplate fishing the event for most ! Is that too difficult to understand for some in media circles ?

[tomscholey]

If cost is the issue Dodge, fishing the World Club Classic is considerably cheaper than fishing the World Club Championships with little or no sponsorship, as per the old system! If teams can't afford to enter the Classic then they would have no chance on the World Club Champs.

Granted, it is a dear do though. It cost us well over £500 each all told to practice for, and fish this years event. It ended up costing me more considerably more, as my van exploded adding another £400 to the bill :-D

Sadly, rising costs are just a sign of the times though, with increasing fuel costs, bait costs, digs etc.

It was worth very penny though, with almost everyone over the two days having a good weekends fishing. Over 500kg of fish were caught over the two days, awesome fishing.

I feel sorry for those who turned down the chance to fish, as they missed a great weekends fishing.

[bill yards]

Tom,
As I put this thread up the first place there are a few things that you are abviously unaware of. If you care to look back through the archives of this site there was a very sensible discussion about the system when it was put into place, - if you check back it was felt that the money could well have been put to much better use in match fishing.

I can assure you that sour grapes has not entered my thoughts, in fact nothing could be as far away as this.
In 1986 I captained a mere club side, Izaak Walton (Stafford) AA and we won the National in 1986 on the Oxford Canal. By 'club side' I mean all members of one Association not a gathering of the match anglers from various other clubs; just take a look at how many Associations fish the National now, part of the 'reasons why' are within what I have just said. That may be progress, it may not, but part of our prize was automatic entry into the World Inter Clubs in 1987 in Sweden.

Now, as you know, Sweden is a very expensive country but were we going to turn this down? No, wild horses would not have stopped us! We spent almost the full year scrimping and saving, going to all the companies we worked for and more under the sun to help us out; we were all working men and the biggest source of the cost came from these companies - it was far from easy just as it isn't today. However it was possible and at no point did we ever moan at the cost (That was Rule 1 on out list!).

To give you an idea a Hotel we stopped in was £95 a night and lager £6.60 for almost a pint, - this was 1987! Our maggot bill (I still have it) was £397-80p alone, - that was just maggots, no groundbait etc.
We had fourteen wonderful days there, meeting and fishing with Internationals from all over the World. We just did our very best and enjoyed ourselves.

I have nothing whatsoever against Barnsley or any other side for that matter but to qualify to represent England after finishing 18th in what should be the top event in our match fishing calendar is just crazy.

With respects these are just my thoughts.

Tony Keeling.

[joffmiester]

I personally think this is a no win situation there are perhaps as many as 20 teams in the country that are willing to put the time and money to compete against the best that is simply not enough to sustain the quality of these competitions Take a look at why your recent league folded Tom why my summer league folded 15 teams of six everyone loved it  gone  and never will return. priorities have changed we all have to work more and like you said £500 each to fish i take it you took 6 anglers thats £3,000 for 4 or 5 days fishing and you had a great result i dare say the winnings didn't cover the trip but at least your team did pick a cheque up unlike the other 7 teams
I love fishing still as much as i did 30 years ago the changes have disappointed me over the years but even so just to get out on the bank every sunday is key for me and i think a lot of other anglers feel the same . expenditure is killing team fishing
Saturdays are a NO NO simply because of costs to my business for me not to be there
i was at business meeting this week and one of the speakers happened to be one of the new age young bankers he made a powerful speech but one statement that hit home to me was when he said no one or no business is recession proof we are all living in a time where more and more of us are only a few wage packets away from being homeless  harsh but true when you think about it
i think competive team fishing has to ride this out like most sports and then pick up the pieces after 

[tomscholey]

Nice post Tony, I can tell you really enjoyed the experience. Talking to my mate and colleague, Joe Carass, who fished the event with the then Ossett team a few years ago, he recounted a similar tale. It is a great thing for any team to be a part of, and I would love to have a chance to fish the event one day.

I also fully agree that everything is getting more expensive sadly, though I do think the original intention of this competition was to help try and offset the cost of fishing the event.

With regard to Barnsley getting the chance to fish after finishing 18th, it is sadly a sign of the times that nobody else in the top ten wanted to take up their place, but credit to Barnsley for having a go and fair play to them for winning.

To look at it from a different angle (and play devils advocate) which was the greater angling achievement, winning a national on an undoubtedly peggy, big fish and end peg dominated narrow canal, or putting in the almost faultless performance that Barnsley did on a fish filled venue, where weights were much closer, and tactical decisions rather than the drawbag determined the result?

And Joff, I agree with everything you have said mate, sadly expenditure is killing team fishing. By contrast to the teams of 6 which folded, our Sensas teams of four starts this weekend, and has proved very popular, with nine teams taking part. The main difference? All the payout on the teams of four is individual, and its free to enter!

[joffmiester]

Thats good news Tom as i think the sensas final will be the biggest competition this year i also think pairs competitions are growing as well again it might be because out lay is better and you will also cover your costs if your lucky enough to frame

[bill yards]

Tom,

I don't want this to end up like a tennis match but believe me Shakespeare were the best team on the day of the Div One National on the T & M Canal at Rugeley and Burton (the venue is quite near where I live) and thoroughly deserved to win. It was no fluke and no coincidence either that Shakespeare also won the last Div One National on the three narrow canals around here, - I ran that match.

I also actually fished the Div One in September and drew next to one of the Shakespeare lads. He fished brilliantly to take high points in an area where everyone else in that area had low points.

I think a bit more credit is due and not use old chestnuts like drawbag, big fish and end pegs, - I know you may not mean it but we call those sort of comments 'sour grapes' round here! Incidentally Barnsley won the "fish off" because they did it best, just like Shakespeare did in the two National I mentioned and for that matter the one on the Huntspill as well that wasn't too far back in time.

However, to win the National and then have to do it again, to win a place in the World Inter Clubs, is a ridiculous position match fishing finds itself in.

Maybe I am getting a little bit passed it a bit now but I honestly believe decisions like this do nothing but devalue the National Championships, - something I did say four years ago. I honestly think entries will take another tumble next year but I hope not.

One of the biggest problems match fishing has today, in my opinion for what it is worth, is that the future is basically left to sort itself out and itr appears 'grab what you can' today.

Again with respect,

Tony Keeling

[Dodge]

If cost is the issue Dodge, fishing the World Club Classic is considerably cheaper than fishing the World Club Championships with little or no sponsorship, as per the old system! If teams can't afford to enter the Classic then they  would have no chance on the World Club Champs.

Fair comment Tom . But this is surely the issue or one of the main issues why major team fishing is almost extinct ........ it is the ever increasing cost issue , what happened with the top 10 fish off final and the many teams who turned the opportunity down reflects this loud and clear.
I for one wish Barnsley all the best in the world club final  balling in with b/joker on a deep slow moving venue at Littleport with plenty of fish suited them down to the ground and they didnt break any rules to take there rightfull place at the venue ........ maybe they should get a bit better on shallow canals though next time maybe ? lol 

I personally would have loved to fished the event as my team finished 6th in the Div 1 but sadly it wasnt to be and i respect any reasoned decision my team takes in the best interest of its team members     

[tomscholey]

Fair play chaps there is no denying Shakespeare are shallow canal kings, as you rightly say. I ran the bank on this years National, and stand by my statement though - what bit I saw was dominated by anglers who had room or an end peg, and big fish were crucial in most sections.

Credit where its due though, Shakespeare have proved time and again they are masters at narrow canal fishing, in other canal leagues as well as National Championships. ;-)

That said, World Club Championships are rarely held on venues like a narrow canal, so I can't help but think Barnsley will get a better result abroad, given the teams international pedigree - and I also believe what they did on the Great Ouse was more of an achievement than winning the National, but that is just my opinion.

Unless a new sponsor is found, I think it is back to the winner of the Division One going to fish next year anyway. So for the 2015 National on the Tidal Trent, the chances are the team that qualifies to represent England in the World Club Championship will do so on the feeder - a method not even allowed on the World Club Championship.

Both the system used for the last four years, and the one before that had their flaws in my opinion. It can hardly be argued that the old system was a roaring success, as the number of people wanting to fish in National Championships dropped dramatically in the years leading up to the new system being introduced. Though, as we have already established this probably had more to do with socio economic factors than anything.

I don't know what the answer is, or even if there is an answer. I will be sad to see yet another big team fishing event drop from the calendar though. And next years National won't seem nearly as appealing for me, knowing that we are essentially fishing for one place instead of ten - or in the case of this years event - about 21 :-D