Division two national 2013

#21

when was it discussed?

Two or three years back, one for river, one for canal

Obviously nowt happened but it is still a good idea.

Finding a good headquarters (at a good price) is one the pitfalls to using many venues.
The Agricultural Grounds they used to use have pushed their prices up to a silly level. When I ran the Div one down here they were looking at around £1500 for the day

it is probably dearer now

joffmiester · #22

bill i can't see it being very cheap on a commercial with all the practicing
if you run them i'd fish everyone kido couldn't fault yours mate

#23

Firstly by moving a National to a Commercial fishery the Angling Trust has given away its own authority !!! The commercial will use its own rules thus potentially disqualifying anglers for "breaking" the fishery rules , dictate the pegging , dictate what baits are allowed and not allowed etc etc, plus make a lot of money ! .Secondly allready plenty of "old school" anglers are talking about never rejoing the Angling Trust , these are the anglers who have kept "team" fishing going over the last few years , die hards who the Angling Trust depends on for a decent percentage of its membership coffers. Thirdly where are the "commie teams" coming from ????? we all know the commercial scene is used and abused by selfish individual anglers who are only in it to WIN MONEY AT ANY COST with no "team " aspirations whatsoever !Fourthly, it has been said in the past from the angling media in general that match angling would be dead without the emergence of commercial fisheries ....... well with the state match angling is in today how could that statement ever be true ???? Fifthly , the angling industry as a whole needs to take a long hard look at itself , seemingly it has has turned its back on natural venues and proper team fishing , maybe just maybe if a few of the tackle firms invested a few bob into team fishing, natural venues and a revamp of the winter leagues things could get a whole lot better for all concerned ?Sixthly , Maybe match angling could or should split into two ....... it would be so easier to manage in the long term

#24

Seventhly !

How much money could be generated through membership IF another "body" was set up to look after natural venues / team fishing ? Could angling clubs potentially affilliate to a new "body" if they wanted to ? would this be a "better" deal for match anglers and club anglers ?

#25

There are quite a few very good points and opinions on here without anyone 'high horsing' and threatening stupid things. I know the Angling Trust do look in from time to and hopefully they pick some of these up

swiv · #26

MORRIE 88 is right in what he said.Spoke to Bob Dyer 6 weeks ago he said and i quote after 2013 div 1 national on a midlands canal probably Trent Mersey there will be a choice you can either fish a river national a canal one or a commercial or a combination of 1 2 or 3 if this comes off it will appease a lot of anglers i think after saturdays reaction it will happen

#27

Some Good points, however there is a problem how the match scene is run at the mo.
Bob Dwyer who does a great job unfortunately works abroad mon to fri and is basically a volunteer who gets paid expenses, that's roughly the deal and my apologies if that's a bit out.
I wonder if the AT could fund a full time match organiser, maybe Bob so we could have good communication and obviously meetings to understand where we can go from here.
It just is not working how the format is at present and unfortunately in my opinion the AT does not really know what anglers want.
Like I said before, My mother always used to buy me tops I hated but I know She meant well !

#28

Some Good points, however there is a problem how the match scene is run at the mo.
Bob Dwyer who does a great job unfortunately works abroad mon to fri and is basically a volunteer who gets paid expenses, that's roughly the deal and my apologies if that's a bit out.
I wonder if the AT could fund a full time match organiser, maybe Bob so we could have good communication and obviously meetings to understand where we can go from here.
It just is not working how the format is at present and unfortunately in my opinion the AT does not really know what anglers want.
Like I said before, My mother always used to buy me tops I hated but I know She meant well !

Glad you put this point Rich as i have E-mailed Bob twice about winter league without reply and was quite cheesed off about it but your point explains why, but it is a bad situation when you E-mail an event organiser twice as a captain and get no reply. Think the idea of 3 nationals is a great idea, as much as i am a traditionalist and think nationals should be on natural venues, it doesn't take a genius to work out that this great event has dwindled horrendously over the last 10 years so something needed to be tried to revive it

#29

Bob Dwyer who does a great job unfortunately works abroad mon to fri and is basically a volunteer who gets paid expenses, that's roughly the deal and my apologies if that's a bit out

That must be the most bizzare situation ever ! Match angling / Team fishing is in such a state and the bloke running it is out of the country during the week , every week ....... how on earth can that ever possibly work ?

Sluicer · #30

Simple answer to that one Dodge - it can't and as has been shown so far - it isn't.

That's not to the personal detriment of Mr Dyer, but someone, somewhere - above him in the management structure of the Angling Trust wants (in the words of my Grandad) his wobbly cheeks punching for allowing such a stupid situation to manifest in the first place.

Hands-on, contactable and with an ear to the ground at all times (an ace at Twister, basically) should be the prerequisites for that role.

I'm afraid it shows the bias in the management structure at the AT - they don't really have a Scooby as far as strategy for matches is concerned.

joffmiester · #31

bob dyer is only one man it's not all down to bob,he is the front man because most of us know him and is perhaps the only one taking note
lloydy we have all sent emails about the winter league rules and i should imagine there is a fare few to go through and he's away Monday to Friday i'm under no doubt he will answer all the questions soon

i understand every-one's frustration about team and match angling but its not the organisers fault
anglers themselves have let the sport down
not turning up
not booking on
moaning about pegs being put in and generally not being bothered about the sport [ok work and counting the pennies has had a lot to do with it as well]
instead of looking at the positives , taking part in a competition and not win at all cost
the sport was in dangered a long time ago no one picked up on it then when nationals became less and less
big money commercial competitions have taken a lot of natural venue anglers away from team fishing
and when they have had enough there options are not the brightest
if the sport had one group of organisers and every area submitted there match calender way before the season started this group could sort leagues out into areas and you take what you are given
anglers will never be able to make there own mines up so let someone do it for them

bigger organised leagues are the way forward or have one area match a month that will attract 50 to 100 anglers not split them into small knockups
a competition leader is needed to tell match anglers what competitions to fish

#32

Anyone can dress the situation up how they want Joff unfortunately time isnt on our side and the situation with Bob Dyer and the Angling Trust needs addressing asap. Sluicer,s post about sums the whole situation up !
The sooner the position is made FULL TIME the better....... before it is too late !

brian_gibson · #33

I have followed this thread with interest and a tinge of sadness, I have tried to keep quiet but find myself compelled to put fingers to key board.

Many valid points have been made on here and directly to the AT over the years, unfortunately these questions have and will I feel remain unanswered.

One point raised, was that the AT should appoint someone who would be capable of liaising with match anglers to sort this mess out. Well this has apparently happened, that guy is Bob Dyer…………. Was Bob voted in? Or was he self appointed after having a word with Mr. Lloyd. ? Why not Mr. Dave Kent?????????

Unfortunately the nationals will be run the way the AT want them to be run, on venues the AT want to use and can afford, if they can financially benefit from the event being run on a commercial then so be it. They don’t care what match anglers want anymore.

The At is run as a business by delusional semi corporate minded individuals from the same middleclass, educated background................being passionate for team angling is not a prerequisite to being on the AT board or Executive ……………….empire building springs to mind.

The AT executive don’t give a flying carrot about what the backbone of angling want, i.e. match anglers, and the specie lads game anglers, all they are focused on is funding, increasing membership and fees and how to extract more money from anglers and now forcing anglers to be members in order to fish competitions, how long will it be before its compulsory to be a member in order to fish ????
This is just having the adverse effect as anglers are not fooled by this self imposed power they are not he voice of angling as they claim , if they were then there would be more members.

Rant over.

#34

what the backbone of angling want,

As Gibbo says there are stacks of points of view on this subject.

I have highlighted a few words in Gibbo's correspondence for a good reason. Do not the Angling Trust say somewhere that Clubs are the backbone of the Angling Trust? I am sure it does.

At the present time that is possibly correct but if this is so what will happen now? Within my job I speak on a regular basis to angling clubs; some accept the Angling Trust and some don't, - that is the way of the world.

One huge Club, it is unfair to name them, - that I was very recently in contact with did not know that the Div Two next year was on a commercial; in fact I do not think my own club have been properly informed but I have no doubt they will be.

Clubs, by there very nature, are NOT commercials. My own club (I am Chairman) of the IW(Stafford)AA are probably typical of any mid range membership club. We pay our fees annually to the Angling Trust. I am thoroughly aware of what good the Angling Trust does but the FACT is the a good proportion of Clubs manage their affairs in such a way that they can offer the opportunity for their members the opportunity to represent their Club in National competitions. With the announcement of The Div 2 National in 2013 on a commercial this has been taken away from many clubs.

Equally as important, over the years these Clubs (refer to the backbone of the Angling Trust) have supplied venues to fish National Championships on. OK the Clubs need the peg fees in this day and age of spiralling water rent charges, - it all helps.

Now the ball has been set rolling with a 'commercial' National this possibility has now been cut completely.
There is a very strong possibility (it has already been hinted to me via a handful of clubs) that they will consider the situation very carefully when the renewals come around, I know I will have to find answers, possibly to some 'awkward' questions from our membership.

Maybe this is the way forward and b******** to what has gone on since 1906.

two shakes · #35

I have followed this thread with interest and a tinge of sadness, I have tried to keep quiet but find myself compelled to put fingers to key board.

Many valid points have been made on here and directly to the AT over the years, unfortunately these questions have and will I feel remain unanswered.

One point raised, was that the AT should appoint someone who would be capable of liaising with match anglers to sort this mess out. Well this has apparently happened, that guy is Bob Dyer…………. Was Bob voted in? Or was he self appointed after having a word with Mr. Lloyd. ? Why not Mr. Dave Kent?????????

Unfortunately the nationals will be run the way the AT want them to be run, on venues the AT want to use and can afford, if they can financially benefit from the event being run on a commercial then so be it. They don’t care what match anglers want anymore.

The At is run as a business by delusional semi corporate minded individuals from the same middleclass, educated background................being passionate for team angling is not a prerequisite to being on the AT board or Executive ……………….empire building springs to mind.

The AT executive don’t give a flying carrot about what the backbone of angling want, i.e. match anglers, and the specie lads game anglers, all they are focused on is funding, increasing membership and fees and how to extract more money from anglers and now forcing anglers to be members in order to fish competitions, how long will it be before its compulsory to be a member in order to fish ????
This is just having the adverse effect as anglers are not fooled by this self imposed power they are not he voice of angling as they claim , if they were then there would be more members.

Rant over.

joffmiester · #36

gibbo and bill some great comments you have made

the end of the day it will be the clubs and natural venues that will loose the most and they hold a lot of the membership money to the AT so its a massive gamble, as you say this is the back bone of fishing
if they want to try a commercial then make it commercial national for commercial anglers don't experiment with anglers that have fished nationals year on year
and leave the division1 for all the natural venue anglers
i'm not sure if commercial anglers are too bothered about team fishing as there is no I in team most would just turn up on the day

#37

Have the Angling Trust made a massive U turn ?

Click here http://www.talkangling.co.uk/upload/sho ... post334932

joffmiester · #38

looks like it dodge
we will be in division 2 next year better start making a list of venues

trent
junky
shroppie
sounds ok

joffmiester · #39

ANGLING TRUST DIVISION 2 NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP 201306.08.12

The announcement last week that Angling Trust would run the Division 2 event on a still water venue namely Lindholme Lakes and surrounding fisheries has received a very mixed reception.

It was made very clear that the decision to use a stillwater venue in 2013 does not in any way mean that natural venues will no longer be used for National Championships. It is a fact that many of the Trust’s coarse match anglers still favour the more traditional venues. However finding such venues which meet all the requirements for a National Championship is becoming increasingly difficult. Alongside this the Trust has an obligation to provide those members who these days do most of their fishing on commercial stillwaters with events on venues which they prefer.

The decision to trial a Stillwater Championship in 2013 is, therefore, by way of an experiment to enable a full assessment of issues such as suitability, popularity and cost.

However, given the reaction of some of its members to the announcement, the Trusts Coarse Competitions Committee decided to contact directly all those teams eligible for the Division 2 event in 2013 asking them to indicate which type of venue they would prefer to fish.

If the result shows a majority in favour of a natural venue for the 2013 Division 2 National Championship the Committee will proceed to find a suitable venue which meets all the requisite criteria. Indeed any recommendations from member clubs for 2013, and beyond, would be welcomed. However, a stillwater team championship at Lindholme and surrounding fisheries will still go ahead but clearly not as Division 2.

Mick Turner, Chair of Coarse Competitions, says “I hope anglers will realise that we are trying these ideas out with the best of intentions and that we only have their interests at heart.”

ENDS--

For Competition press enquiries please contact 0115 9061 301/307.

joffmiester · #40

someone is listening or watching