Messi - the best ever?

trypewriter · #1

Loads of plaudits for Messi today - no surprise - what an awesome player and living proof of why England will not win another World Cup in our lifetimes. Why? In this country he would have been discarded by the scouting system by about the age of 9 because he was too small. Meanwhile, with no disrespect to them, we are great at producing Andy Carrolls and Cameron Jeromes.
Best player I actually saw play (many times) was Denis Law, but again, would he get through today's system? Skinny, bespectacled, undernourished and with a squint. The great England full back, Ray Wilson, who played with him at Huddersfield under Bill Shankly said: 'When he turned up we thought the scout who sent him down from Scotland was having a joke - but when he walked onto the football pitch he was a different lad entirely.'

One of Law's best games was one he didn't score in - the 5-1 mauling of Benfica where Best got all the publicity. In the first leg (which was a more entertaining game - united won 3-2) Law was virtually unplayable.
In the return game, protecting that one goal lead he played very deep, and just as Hungary's deep lying centre forward had pulled England's defence out of shape ten years earlier, so did Law to Benfica in the Stadium of Light. The result was that Best had acres of space to operate in and tore them to ribbons, Law producing an exhibition of passing the football that showed that he was more than just a goal scorer.

Drynet · #2

Maradona

joffmiester · #3

alan sugar twitted " can't see him coming to spurs "

class

can't believe the manager could be going at the end of the season

joffmiester · #4

right time for the woodies

to watch the next Barcelona team BLUE MOOOOOON

#5

Good lad joff

Funny enough we had this debate at lunchtime in the canteen ...... all the usual city @ united banter

concensus of opinion was Messi hasnt won a world cup yet and Maradonna has plus Maradonna played over a longer period and won leagues / trophies with several different clubs plus took no hopers Napoli to Serie A glory

Regards smaller english players being disgarded trypewriter ........ Paul Scholes was world class plus he also had the disadvantage of being a ginger crappity smack !

trypewriter · #6

Scholes was worried that he might be viewed as too small to make it. But from experience there are some very average players who come through due to physical attributes rather than technical ability. It's not new though, Matt Busby wrote about it in his book ('My Story' - poignantly pre Munich). I think he said something like: 'By all means follow the course that a good big 'un will beat a good little 'un, but don't fall into the trap that too many do, that an average big 'un will beat a good little 'un.'
He cited Spurs Tommy Hamer as a good little 'un, and remember, Busby had Duncan Edwards on his books - who was a very, very, good big 'un (but 'only' 5-11 so not big by today's standards - he just played like a giant...).

#7

Nobby Stiles from the Busby era was another little un who would give absolutely everything ..... tough as they come and a World Cup winner . Cant remember any decent small City player,s apart from Franny Lee , he was short and and fat !

#8

Puskas

No so tall, podgy.

One of the all time greats.

#9

Here you go, just for you Bill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwUFWzmJuCQ

ps - in the bottom rh corner there's a 'square' - click on it and it blows it up full screen

Esc to return to normal......

#10

And part two.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pr9eei_ ... re=related

#11

Just watched them, brill.

I was priveledged to watch him play not once but twice

grover · #12

seen this question so many times, and i always give the same answer! to be the best player ever, you gotta be the best at everything! , now messi going forward is without doubt the best.. but he cant mark a man, or defend can he? to label him the best you gotta watch him play a lot, which you can thesedays via sky etc, its summink thats always made me larff, when they say pele was the best? we only really saw him play every 4 years at the world cups, so how can we say such a thing?

trypewriter · #13

Grover, you've therefore got a choice of two - John Charles or Duncan Edwards. Both could play midfield, centre half or centre forward and be first choice in any of them. It's the same argument with a cricket all-rounder, to be a true all rounder you need to be good enough to be picked just on the strength of batting or bowling - like Freddie Flintoff in his pomp. (or Ian Botham). Probably the best though was Sobers, who could bowl spin, medium pace or quick (the latter in his youth) as well as being a devastating batsman.

#14

New Zealand,s Richard Hadlee was the best allrounder in my opinion , top class medium / quick bowler (better than Botham) and a top class middle order batsman for many years

. South Africa,s Jaques Kalis is still going strong today although back problems have curtailed his pace the last 18 months or so, he has been at the top of the batting world rankings for many years , awesome modern time allrounder and probably played more games than Hadlee and Botham put togehter

grover · #15

you see guys!! now your getting my drift...

trypewriter · #16

Good shout for Richard Hadlee - I also rated Lance Cairns from NZ - medium pace wobblers and a fierce hitter. Shame 20/20 wasn't around when he was in his pomp!

#17

John Charles was awesome; seen him play many times, he could fill any position on the pitch. Even Eddie Clamp had a job to nobble him

trypewriter · #18

The thing is Bill, 'Gentleman John' would just have laughed and got on with the game!

grover · #19

now u can see why the post topic about messi, is ridiculous imo, if it was headed, messi.. best player going forward then i'd probably say yes!!

trypewriter · #20

Agreed Grover, it's a difficult topic and goalscorers always figure more heavily in best ever lists. - Maybe because to win games you have to score goals. I remem ber some years ago Pele was asked to list the best 100 LIVING players (living at the time of the list) and he couldn't get it any smaller than 123. But the list is also seen as very flawed, because there were players in it from lower profile footballing countries (some said it looked like it had been picked by Sepp Blatter) who really didn't deserve to be in it on ability. Even amongst the higher profile countries there were players who you wouldn't have had in the top 123 Carlos Valderama (colombia) being one of them in my opinion.