Are we just taken for granted and ripped off?

#1

Are ‘small’ angling clubs being short changed by some riparian owners?

This venue was suggested by a fellow club member as a candidate for our 2011 fixture list.

http://www.talkangling.co.uk/upload/ven ... lakes.html

The response in the link got me thinking of some of the ‘problems’ we’ve faced on matches and leads to this post……… :(

A number of our members will ‘recognise’ that I tend to shy away from the, shall I describe them as ‘more well known high profile venues’. This is for a variety of reasons, the main one being the unsavoury experiences we’ve received on the few occasions we’ve visited a few places.

Yes I know that I shouldn’t tarnish all fisheries with the same brush without trying them, but it seems that every time we do visit such a venue there is an issue and I vow never to visit the place again.

In fact on a couple of occasions after a lapse of several years I’ve relented on that vow, booked the place again, only to experience further problems that reinforced my original sentiments that the place would never ever receive a penny from the clubs coffers as long as I had any influence with matters.

I’m not going to name names, but things we’ve experienced in the past……….

Overly aggressive owners who launch into a tirade of verbal abuse to the match organiser regarding fishery rules…….and that’s before we’ve even done the draw! Do they need to go onea 'communication course' - not half, after all it doesnt cost anything to be civil to your paying customers

Debatable draw conducted by the fishery owner..........

I pay our match costs in full, generally at least 6-8 months in advance. You’ve booked 25 pegs and the cheque was cashed months ago. You’ve a permit that states 25 pegs booked/paid for. You arrive on the day to learn that you are allocated only 20 with anglers already in situ and allowed to fish both sides of your ‘allocated’ pegs………

You pay £150 match booking for a pool that has 30 odd pegs on it. You’ve paid the equivalent day ticket for 25 pegs and you are promised the ‘complete’ pool. Now you know 25 is really the max you can fit on the pool and the ‘opens’ generally have much less than that on it, with any extra anglers allocated across a 2nd pool. You get there to find anglers already on the noted pegs, allowed by the owner with only 25 pegs left vacant on the pool. After taking issue with the owner you are greeted with the comment ‘If I’d have known you were going to turn up with 25 anglers I’d have…………’ .Am I stupid or what, what the crappity smack have I paid for 25 pegs for………….to line your pockets even more than I need do?

Your cheque for a venue gets cashed. But no permit arrives in the sae envelope that you’ve sent to enable the owner to send you a permit and fishery rules. You chase up………’It’ll be in the post’………..again and again and again over the intervening months………….never to receive either.

‘Minimum bookings. You can have say a 30 peg pool (although the pegs are again only 5 yards apart) as long as you have say a minimum of 15 anglers on it. So you can have all of the pool for say £90. With 15 on it you can ‘spread about a bit’. But come along with 20 and it costs you an extra £30 and you are all cramped up a bit more. Need all 25 and its an extra £60

You need to cater for 25 anglers. There are two pools at the fishery, both with 20 pegs on, although the reality is, these again are only 5 yards apart and it would be better if there were only 12/13 on each pool. You enquire bout the possibility of booking both pools to accommodate your 25 members……….’Yep no problem - that’ll be 40 pegs @ £6 peg, err that’s £240’ My response ‘Crappity smack off……..if you don’t want our £150, well crappity smack off a bit more……..’

Of course as per the link above we’ve also experienced on more than one occasion the 40 odd peg venue, we’ve been allocated 25 cramped up round a corner. The rest is reserved for pleasure anglers……. and there’s no one on them for the rest of the day.

Rules. You get a list of rules, publicise them only to find what was banned aint no longer, and what was allowed, aint no longer, causing further argument amongst your members on the day just before the draw

You book a venue only to subsequently learn of rules/conditions/impositions that you wouldn’t have entertained had you known of them ‘in advance’

Or is it just me in GOM mode……….am I out of synch with the norm, am I being unreasonable with my expectations for the club???????????
.
I can feel my blood pressure rising so I’d better just leave it there…………over to you with your experiences or is it just poor old us……….obviously not given the link above.

#2

no m8 not just your club,we suffer the same type of crap,2 examples
well known match venue just outside stourport allocated us half pool (25 pegs ) for 20 anglers,@ least 5 pegs unfishable being 2 foot under water and several so close it was unbelievable,i could of poked snowie on the next peg up the hooter with my top kit if there wasnt a bush in the way,

another one named after a well know angler quoted us a price took the deposit with the balance to pay on the day,when we got there he was like bloody hitler harrassing everybody then demanded an extra £40 over the agreed price no if no buts pay up or dont fish.

needless to say dont think our club will be going back.

fishing was crap anyway,

1 good example, place we fish just outside rugeley had a midweek match club last week,only 14 pegs booked on the main pleasure pool which has 23 pegs ,they were given the whole pool,same with us on sunday booked 20 pegs only 17 turned but whole pool given to us and we picked what time we started and finished,no pressure what so ever to get off so pleasure anglers could get on,only a small venue with 2 small pools of 18 & 23 pegs but a pleasure to fish

#3

TK

Im sure it’s a Midlands money grabbing thing as I never seem to have those sort of problems on any Marsh matches. Its seems similar to most fisheries up there insisting on you using and buying their pellet on the grounds of “Fish Welfare” otherwise known as “Making extra profit”.
I accept that day tickets are in general more expensive for us but where I book a whole lake its usually for a specific fee and we can decide how we peg it. There are 2 exceptions one which lets us have the whole lake but only charges day tickets for those that fish on the day and the other charges a minimum 18 day tickets for the whole lake but if more than that fish then he charges for each angler. Its no problem to us as we are fully aware of the costs before booking. In addition our guys can fish on after the match at no cost if they want. Unlike you we fish 6 hour matches and the only restriction we get as we may have to have a midmatch weigh in on one lake.
Pleasure anglers rarely cause a problem but where there are one or two fishing before we get there a quite request to them will see them move to another lake on the fishery. At Rockells I have had requests from a couple of “Sunday afternoon” anglers if they can fish, and as there is only one lake and we normally leave out the crap car park pegs, I have allowed them to fish away from our guys with our members consent.

Im often criticised for chatting too much but because of that I have built up a good relationship with all our owners which does help if you have a problem.

On top of all that TK unlike you we have a few fish in our pools.

joffmiester · #4

dead right TK i've often seen at venues clubs have to book the whole lake yet a open match can often have everyother peg or two or three lakes for a 30 pegger

#5

Joffie - I can 'understand' the opens having more space.........get some good anglers on there, get some good results, publicise them and the club bookings will 'flood in'

But the same playing field ought to apply to the bread and butter clubs........

Why have 40 pegs on a water when it really ought to be 20 at 10 yards apart? I'd like to think it's so pegs can be rotated ie this week the open is on every odd peg, next week even pegs...........but am I just being too cynical when I think it's the cash cow syndrome - fill the first 25 up with a club match and I'll sell the remaining 15 to any pleasure anglers that come along

One place I called to rebook a year or two ago has a pool with 26 pegs. Now these aint exactly 10 yards apart.........I wanted to book and pay for 20 and asked if they'd give me the pool - 'No' was the response - we'd be on 1 to 20 and the remaining 21-26 would be kept available to any pleasure anglers that came along on the day. Crappity smack that - our club monies went elsewhere........

I'm not intending this as a 'slag off' every fishery. Yep OBI - I know the places you refer to where you've had both good and poor experiences. And yep we've had some 'excellent' matches at some 'excellent' fisheries where you've got decent pegs, you are not restricted to their baits, they leave 'you to get on with it' and trust you to abide by the rules.

So not every venue in the Midlands is a nightmare Dave - but a few have growing unfavourable reputations.

Spose it doesnt apply to the open circuit - cuss anglers would just walk and take their custom elswhere - after all a 5 peg open aint much of a match is it.

Whereas perhaps some fisheries have the perception that either small clubs will return, or there is enough of us out there to satisfy future demand for pegs? A 'take it or leave it' there's always another mug club prepared to come week in and week out? We dont need you..........?

'Can I stop on for an hour after the match' is something I'm sometimes asked........you've paid exactly the price for 20 odd 'day tickets. I've had a match permit stipulate that anyone wanting to fish after the match MUST PURCHASE A FURTHER DAY TICKET. It aint that there is a 2nd match planned and you need to vacate the water, you've had your 5 hours...........just greed in my eyes

But I'll stand corrected if someone can give me a plausable reason for that...........

#6

I dropped the following E-mail to the fishery after the match......

Hi Graham,
Visited the fishery for the 1st time last Saturday when Marsh AC fished the Reservoir. A really enjoyable day that was well recieved all round by the club members. Really appreciated you taking some time to help advise on the pegging, and then returning later to pass on a few snippets to all the lads. Good fishing in great surroundings, I'll definately be back and I'm sure the club will be looking for another booking in the future.

Cheers,
Peter.

And recieved this back....

Hi Peter

Sorry for the delay in answering your e-mail but have been away to Ross on Wye doing a bit of Barble fishing myself. Thank you for your nice comments very much appreciated glad you enjoyed your day of fishing. Thank you and the members of your club for the visit and for leaving the bank clean. Look forward to seeing you in the near future.

Best Regards

Graham

joffmiester · #7

its a money making business like anything TK commercials have had a golden time of it over the past 8 to 10 years with fisheries popping up everywhere and news travels quick on day ticket prices and before you know it its anywhere between 4 and 6 quid a day ticket
fare play they have to stock these places and a fare few are brilliantly run with top quality faculties these are the commercials that will go from strength to strength as for the smaller ones that treat clubs as you say will find it harder in the future and with the winter months coming they'd wish for a club match of 20 pegs
in my eye's its always better to look after clubs like yours as it guarantees business as you will always go back pleasure fishermen tend to move around from one to the other or where ever there mates say is fishing well [i bit like pubs a new one opens and everyone goe's to it then another opens and they move on fishing is just the same]TK stick it out until you find the right commercial for your club and you might find a helpfull owner and stick with it

don't forget the coach trip to eye kettleby

#8

just to prove they are not all bad,i remember 3 or 4 years ago me and snowie organised a knock up from work at a fishery just outside lichfield that i think you have fished b4 tk,(andy orme is the owner),with 20 people booked in we booked the pool @ £80 for the day,you get the pool dawn til dusk here and its up to you how long you fish for,

on the day only 8 of the buggers turned up so it looked like me and snowie were going to have to cough up a large chunk of wedge out of our own pocket,any chatting to the owner during the match telling him how we were let down he gave us £20 back,needless to say we book this place regular for our club and i love a days pleasure fishing for the ghosties,so he has more than made up for his £20 rebate since.

crackin punch fishin in the winter as well on the pool under the bridge,the roach go well over a pound but nobody goes for em cos they are all to busy after the carp

#9

just outside lichfield that i think you have fished b4 tk,(andy orme is the owner

Yes OBI - it's a venue that falls into my 'excellent' category above

That's why we revisit it too

Just wished a few similar sized fisheries would take a leaf out of their book

cheslynboy · #10

We fish a pool where the guy can't help you enough when we turn up there is a bottle of wine waiting for us to raffle off this guy runs the pool as i would not overfished by open after open only two matches a mth allowed and thats between march and october he is not greedy he gets day anglers all through the rest of the week i hope he prospers well

#11

Sounds interesting Cheslynboy - send us a pm will ya

#12

Ta for the pm Cheslynboy

Re 'but you won't get in till at least 2012 its that far in advance booked no idea off hand what the phone number is but i can find out'

its brill for club matches everybody catches

Yep I know - Ive got the tel no and have already spoken to the owner some months back and he's got my tel no & details 'on the waiting list'

My original intention was for a Cashmores match, but might have it as a TK Grueller bagging match for a change

when I manage to get on there

Cheers again Cheslynboy

me · #13

Tk fishing as a whole is a rip off not just match bookings. Other examples inc
you fish a match and decide to stay on for a bit of pleasure fishing but get charged for the pleasure session even tho you've paid your peg fees for the match.

Fisheries charging silly prices for a small amount of the same pellets we can buy from our local tackle shop or from feed centres

The price bait companies charge for baits such as corn, meat ect when its cheaper in the super markets

The only way people will get them to change is by protesting with our feet or ar$es by not going to rip off fisheries or not usin rip of baits ect

#14

As Dave's said, it really doesn't seem to be the case down here TK.
This is really where the Internet comes into it's own IMO. If clubs have had problems with a fishery reneging on agreed arrangements they shouldn't be afraid to publish them, as long as any report is truthful and what is posted is a matter of fact, there can be no comeback from the fishery.

Having been a club match secretary in years gone by, I know what a thankless task it can be, With all venues it's a case of sorting the wood from the chaff. The better ones always rise to the top, and that normally manifests itself in the fact that they are hard to get a booking for them.

Dave hit the nail on the head, Dialogue goes a long way, it may mean having to take a less than favorable booking, just to get in at a fishery. Fish the match, make sure you leave everything as you would wish to find it at the end and let the fishery know you enjoyed it, either by chatting to the fishery staff or by dropping them an E-mail after. It can work wonders, Dave tok a December date at Rockells to get in (It was a grueller :() but it stood the club in good stead later on and now we get a better date.

Another case in point was our last match at Mill Barn, a 1st time venue for us, the owner took a bit of his time to help with the pegging and came round during the match offering advice, I dropped him a quick E-mail after by way of thanks and recieved a really positive E-mail by return.

The duff ones tend to stand out, and a visit prior to booking should normally help you weed them out.
If in doubt, don't book it.

#15

See what you mean Mugger

The one thing that strikes me is that your aerial views (and subsequent 'on the bank' pictures) always seem to show 'mature' picturesque venues - the ones that I desperately crave for when booking our venues, rather than bomb craters........

Are you just 'fortunate' down south to be able to be extremely 'selective', is that indicative of the sort of venues on call to you?

#16

One of the reasons for that TK is that a try to avoid booking anything that resembles a "Bomb Crater"
A lot of our members are not match anglers and just want a days fishing with mates in good surroundings with the chance of a few fish as a bonus. the places we fish were all at one time bomb craters but have now matured assisted by some good landscaping from the owners.

The other advantage we have over you is that we only fish once a month from March to October so I only have to find 8 good venues rather than 20 so I can be a bit more selective.

Dont become jealous of us TK as it works both ways. We look at the pics of your canal and would love to have something like that near to us.

#17

One of the things that always seems to stand out for me Tony is that the pegging seems to be a lot tighter on the fisheries around your neck of the woods.
When it comes to newer fisheries Monks and Hartleylands stand out down our neck of the woods.

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Part of Hartleylands is well established (The Reservoir, Finches,Hennicker, Sampsons and Woodside) The Match Lakes (Nick's, Bramley & Peartree) are recent additions. The thing is that Paul the owner is a match angler himself and had very definate ideas of what he wanted to create, the lakes were dug and allowed to fill naturaly then stocked. They weren't opened for fishing straight away though. Paul waited till all the planting had become established and the fish had settled in before he allowed anglers onto them. There is no shop on site and just a few sensible rules, while a bailiff is on site at all times.

Monks is slightly different in that it was created by Simon Hughes, the owner of Riverfield Fish Farm......

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A few years ago he was offered the chance to purchace 120 acres of land which included 2000mtrs of the River Beult adjacent to the fish farm. All the lakes were new build, Bridges (16acres) and Puma (10acres) are "Pleasure" Lakes, while Mallard (5 acres) is a Specimen Lake, while the 4 match lakes are set aside on a more elevated part of the site. Simon however sold the lakes, as he simply couldn't spare the time to run them given the success of the fish farm. It is much more of a commercial set up than Hartleylands.

Neither have gone down the "fishery pellets" route, nor do they book 2 matches a day on any lake.

For those that want a bit of extra reading.....

HARTLEYLANDS WEBSITE

RIVERFIELD WEBSITE

MONK LAKES WEBSITE

#18

Just spliced the last 4 posts above onto this topic as it seems to make more sense here.