bread punch....

#21

Thanks for all the help TK had a go with uploading the photos hope it works, here are the two photos of the first two fish i ever caught.

Were they out of the canal?

rayman47 · #22

yes thay were out of the canal the pool is in poolfarm road in gospel lane park acocks green i think i am getting the gist
of the rigs hope the canal thaws out i hope to get out tomorrow thanks mate

rayman47 · #23

I am at canal in the morning im taking white maggots with
turmeric liquidized bread with vinila bread punch
4x12 22 hook 4x14 18 hook
might have to break ice

#24

Keep us posted how you get on

And dont forget that camera

rayman47 · #25

will do

Guest · #26

Is anyone still interested in Bread punch.
I won canal matches back in the 80's and 90's when I used to match fish the canal every week

#27

Yep - tell us more Backhand

Whereabouts did you fish?

How did you go about it - what rigs, how did you feed, what did you feed, what lines did you feed etc etc etc etc ?

What sort of experiences did you encounter using the punch, did you have to ring any changes to keep in touch with the fish? If so what were those subtle changes?

Pray tell us more

Guest · #28

Yep - tell us more Backhand

Whereabouts did you fish?

How did you go about it - what rigs, how did you feed, what did you feed, what lines did you feed etc etc etc etc ?

What sort of experiences did you encounter using the punch, did you have to ring any changes to keep in touch with the fish? If so what were those subtle changes?

Pray tell us more

I match fished Canals between 1975-95. I live in Leighton Buzzard, Beds. So fished Canal matches between here and Northampton,(about 30 miles) In my day there were 80-120 matches every week Sat and Sun. So you got plenty of chances to practice until you got it right.
There are 2 ways that I know of for fishing the Punch. These to ways involve the feeding rather than the rigs and I have won matches fishing both ways.
Method 1
1.Groundbait.
I used to make my own from old sliced bread. Dryed out in the oven until it is a golden colour, then smashed up in a towel with a hammer. Then riddled, any big pieces are then hammered again, until you end up with a very fine golden breadcrumb.
When on the bank and before I tackled up, I would put about 1 pint in a 3 pint baitbox. Then add enough canal water to make it into a sloppy mess. While tackleing up this would then set. The breadcrumbs would absorb the water, so you were left with a groundbait that just held together for throwing.
2.Where to fish it.
This method, because of the sloppy nature of your groundbait, dictates that you fish relatively close to your bank. The exact distance is reflected by the conditions.
If it was very cold and the canal was clear, I would fish more to the middle. Either to hand(14ft rod or 4.5metre pole) or short line/long pole at about 7.5-8.5metres.
What dictates which, is how many fish you expect to catch.
If I thought I could win the match, I would always fish to hand. as its so much quicker. Only using the short line approach if I expected either difficult bits or not many bits.(If that makes sence) These 2 methods also differ in the floats I would use. I must also say before I continue that if:
a)There was a lot of surface drift
b)The canal was moving(either through lock movement or just general movement due to a stream entering the canal.
I would use the short line approach.
3.Equipment 1.
I will start with my favorite, which is waggler to hand, preferably with a 14ft soft tipped rod. Although a 4.5metre pole is just as good. I prefer the rod as you can adjust a front rodrest and use your side tray on your box as the back. This gives you the option of putting in the rod down when your not getting bits.(drink tea)
4.Float 1.
The float would be a homemade balsa with a cane insert.
This would take 2BB locking shot which are put on top of fine silicon tubing. This allows you to bite the BB's on very hard, but also allows you to move them easily.
Starting from the hook, which normally would be a B511 size 20 on a 0.08(12oz, old school, now probably 1lb something) hooklink. (12 inches long). Main line would be (0.12)
I would put 2 (No 10's) 4inches from the hook. then 8 or 10(No10's) 12inches from the hook.
Everything you have ever read about breadpunch regarding shotting always talks about fishing very light. This is totally wrong.(I will explain more about this later)
6. Equipment 2.
Long pole short line.
7. Float 2.
The float would have a pear shaped body, with a wire stem and cane insert.
Shotting would be very similar to the waggler.
B511/20 to 0.08line(12inches long) Mainline would be (0.10)
2 (No 10's) 4inches from hook with bulk of 10 (No 10's) 12 inches from hook.
Underneath the wire stem I would put a (No 12) This is used as a depth marker.
Above the eye near the cane insert I would put a (No 10) a distance less than the length of the insert, this helps the float settle to the same position everytime, as it sinks that bit of line nearest the insert and stops the surface tension of the water from holding up the float slightly.
8. The Method itself.
This sloppy groundbait approach is used on hard days. When you don't expect bites straight away. Feeding is a fingerful of slop every cast or every minute (if you aren't getting bites).
I can't tell you the size of punch to use as all my punches are homemade. But I would start on a medium size(about 4mm or 5mm) and only go smaller if I couldn't get any bites.
I have used this method to great effect in Winter league and open matches. Sometimes I haven't caught for over 3 hours. But the constant groundbait going in will give you the best opportunety when the roach start to feed.
Also, on the same rigs you can try Flouro pinkie. Out of desperation or once punch bits have dried up.
Method 2.
1. Liquidised bread
This is a week old loaf, that is liquidised and riddled, several times. Its used as it is straight from the bag.
2.Where to fish it.
I would also fish this in exactly the same place as Method 1.
But would also consider fishing this further over at say 10 or 11 meters if I thought there was a chance of skimmers.
If I fished in the same place as Method 1 I would use exactly the same floats etc. Either to hand or short line.
I would use Liquidised bread when I thought I would get bits straight away and throughout the match.
By feeding alot at the start it would then free me up to concentrate on just catching.
3. 10 or 11 metres
I would use a slightly smaller float here, as it will be shallower.
Probably shotted with 2(No 12's) 4 inches from hook. Then 6 to 8(No 12's) 12 inches from hook.
4. Feeding
Down the middle I would feed anything up to a whole loaf at the start.
On the 10/11metre line I would do the same.
The only time I would feed less at 10/11metres is if I thought it was going to be rock hard, but there was still a chance of skimmers.
That's my lot for now. I didn't realise it would take up so much space and time. I'm not sure whether you think this sound complicated, but it isn't, its very easy. I would have been able to show you a lot quicker.
I will explain later if anyone is still interested, the reason for fishing relatively heavy. Plus explain about depth plumbing and missed bites and what to do about them.
Michael

#29

Well I am ready for the next instalment

#30

What a bloody good write up. Thank you

#31

Well I am ready for the next instalment

Me too Backhand

Certainly got me thinking............looking back my results back in the 80s on what are now 'our cuts' were far more productive using a combination of method one and the slop, before the advent of liquidised bread which I started using a few years back when I returned to them

Looking forward to learning the rhyme and reasoning behind your shotting pattern/choice of rigs, plumbing and combating missed bites

Guest · #32

Me too Backhand

Certainly got me thinking............looking back my results back in the 80s on what are now 'our cuts' were far more productive using a combination of method one and the slop, before the advent of liquidised bread which I started using a few years back when I returned to them

Looking forward to learning the rhyme and reasoning behind your shotting pattern/choice of rigs, plumbing and combating missed bites

Here goes then:
I'm not sure whether to re-read what I've written so far, or just try to follow on. I didn't have a plan when I started writing it. Just wrote it from memory. I hope it made sence.

I will start by saying that there is a misconseption that punch fishing is a negative method. The reason I say this is that most(I'm talking about when I did it) regarded it as a scratching method when it was ultra hard or a method to try at the start of a match, just to get a few fish in the net. I will explain later, but I'm sure you have heard anglers say. 1 "I tried the punch but couldn't get a bite" or 2" I caught a few but then it died". Hopefully in the next few paragraphs I can explain why this happened to them.
Answer to 1 is they had bites but didn't detect them.
Answer to 2 they either didn't feed properly or as above.
Before I start I will also mention that the most important part of punch fishing is:
a) Getting the depth right.
b) Feeding
Getting started
Which ever method you use plumbing the depth is the most crucial element of the method. So many people do this haphazadly, thinking they will get bites, as long as there are there abouts. At the end of this piece, if I remember I will give you some examples as to why its so critical.
I will start with the waggler to hand.
Position yourself in a comfortable position on your box and hold your rod/pole exactly as you would while fishing. This is so you put the float in exactly the same spot every time, give or take afew inches.
My homemade wagglers for this method are 8 inches long.
Because
1. I am fishing in the deepest water.
2.The extra length helps combat surface drift.
Firstly I would pinch a swan shot on the hook.
Secondly I would change the float I will be using for one exactly the same length, but taking more shotting. But not in excess of one swan shot greater. This means you have a float that is more buoyant, therefore it will register the depth changes better.
Swing out the float and sink the line. If the float is sticking up(I know this bit is obvious) then decrease the depth and try again. keep doing this gradually until the tip of the float is just a pin prick on the surface.
Now in theory this is your true depth. But I only use this as a starting point.
Measure this distance against your rod and mark it (white tipex pen) or If using a pole I used to use an elastic band.
This is only your starting point and can be used to go back to incase you break a hooklink or the locking shot move accidentally.
Now with the float at this depth I would take off one inch(of depth)This I will call the starting fishing depth.
When you start, put punch on hook and swing the rig out underarm and sink the line, making sure the butt of the rod or pole is in the same position everytime. I would then feed a ball of slop right on my float.
Whether you carry on at this depth depends on the sort of bites you are getting. Because you can't see the bottom of the canal, you can't tell if there are any snags,weed etc. So even though you think you are fishing off the bottom you can't be sure.
The different bites and what to do.
1. If the float goes under and I hook a fish, I will carry on at this depth.(very rarely is the depth correct that easily)
2.If the bite isn't positive, doesn't go under, but you can tell you had a bite, but no fish hooked. Then change the depth by an inch(shallower)
You need to repeat 2. untill the float just disappears and you hook a fish.
If you get to the stage where the float goes under or it goes under very fast then you are fishing to shallow. So increase the depth by an inch until the bites are perfect as 1.
It is that easy. Its so straight forward. I believe most anglers that can't get bites on the punch are just lazy and either don't understand the importance of getting the depth right or are just to lazy.(probably because they want to fish the Caster anyway and are only doing it to keep there teammates happy). Ha Ha
Once you start catching at a given depth, its very rare to have to change. Once I was satisfied I would fish that depth all match.
I forgot to say that you must keep feeding a fingerful of slop every cast regardless if your catching or not.
In Winter leagues especially when we had to break the ice, I have gone 3 hours without a bite. But I was so confident in the method, that I knew once the roach started to feed I would get bites. Obviously and before anyone mentions it. You can't get the depth exactly right until you start getting bites. So go through above procedure once that happens.
Thats enough for now. At least its keeping me amused on a cold winters night.
If you are still interested I will try and think of something else to say. But please ask any questions. As its hard thinking of all the things you need to do, while I'm typing.
Also I believe that this method will always catch you roach in the winter, if ayou have any in front of you and bthey are willing to feed yet.
When I read this back it sounds more complicated than it really is. The whole procedure only took me 5 or 10 min. But plumbing and getting the depth right, and I will repeat is the most critical part.
At times in matches the difference of a one inch depth change, resulted in getting positive sail away bites when before the float didn't even move.
Also its the same procedure if you decided to fish long pole/short line. The no 12 shot under the float, I would start with it 6 inches below the wire. After I had done the initial plumb. Then take of inches as above until I got positive hitable bites. All the depth changes were done with a ruler and I would always remember exactly how many, memorizing as I went 1,2,3,4 inches.
I have caught fish at the starting depth and as high as 6 inches of bottom. Though I never regarded it as 6inches off, rather just the depth I caught at, as you can never be sure what's on the bottom.
I must go, but I will say, I am quite pleased someone is still interested in this almost forgotten method. With so many now only fishing commercials the old (good) methods could easily be forgotten.
I keep thinking of other things to say. But in case your wondering. I haven't fished this method in anger(in a match) since 1995 when I packed up disillutioned with the dropping numbers.
But 10 weeks ago at the beginning of Oct. I climbed up in my attic and retrieved all my match tackle.
Went down the canal and fished the above method for the 1st time in 15 years. I caught 10lb 10 oz of roach and skimmers and realised that you never forget how to do it. Although I did need to put on my glasses to tie the hook(ha ha)
The week after I went to a different stretch and fished the long pole/short line down the middle(7.5metres) used liquidised bread.(whole loaf at the start, via a cup, big one) and caught 7lb 12oz.(mostly roach)
Both days were good fun and I haven't done it for such a long time, put the bottom line is there were no winnings at the end.
Thanks for listening
michael

Guest · #33

I forgot to mention about shotting and the reason for fishing relatively heavy.
1. By feeding groundbait every cast and when there are roach in your swim feeding. The smaller roach will always come off bottom and intercept the groudbait. By shotting heavier you are missing out these smaller roach. The reason being its harder to hit the bites from them and also you want to catch the slightly bigger ones, that aren't as fast and can't compete with the smaller ones, hence they tend to stay deeper.
2. The 2 (No 10's) 4 inches from the hook also helps you to get better bites, as I believe they act a bit like a bolt rig in Carp fishing. The fish feels the resistance and moves away. Plus you can also see lift bites so much better as the bristle either doesn't settle or it lifts.
I would say though, that if i started to get fish on the drop I would be worried as its very hard to hit all the bites. I would either stop feeding every cast or change the depth slightly or both.
Both the rigs I have mentioned are exactly the same as would have used for Squatt fishing. The same applys, that if you loose feed squatts every cast the smaller fish rise in the water to intercept on the drop. By fishing heavier you miss them out and get to the bigger fish below. Anyone who is fishing lighter shotting might get more and early bites, but they will miss so many, it will frustrate them. Also they will get plenty of bites they don't even see, coming back without any bread on the hook.
Hookbait
I would buy a fresh loaf of the best quality bread(thick sliced Warburtons) take the crust off about 8 slices.
Get a rolling pin or similar round heavy dowel and roll them flat, turning the bread over so as to roll both sides.
Then cut in half, so you have 16 small pieces. Put in a plastic bag. I would do this on the morning of the match.
On the bank take out one piece and place on a wooden board and cover with a slightly damp towel. Change bread when either you think its drying out or you stop getting bites. I normally would end up with about 30 holes in one slice. If you use anything like all your bread, you have easily won the match.
When punching your bread always have it punched already.
So the procedure would be.
Put punch on hook, swing out rig, feed fingerful of groundbait. Then re-punch the bread ready. So when you swing in a fish and unhook it. The punch is already loaded and ready.
This way you can get into a nice rhythm.
Michael

#34

Certainly a cracking read and that's provided a lot of points to digest and ponder 'Backhand' - on reflection I can certainly relate to an number of your observations that cause me to question my 'current' approach with the method.

Although I've done more than aok in the past within club circles 'doing it my way' it begs the question have I fully exploited my peg

Think I need a few 'practice' sessions down the cut adopting some of your principles

Many thanks for taking the time and trouble to pen this article - worthy of inclusion in one of the angling press

#35

And ps..........

Good to hear you went up the loft, dusted off the gear and had those cracking nets of silvers

Guest · #36

Certainly a cracking read and that's provided a lot of points to digest and ponder 'Backhand' - on reflection I can certainly relate to an number of your observations that cause me to question my 'current' approach with the method.

Although I've done more than aok in the past within club circles 'doing it my way' it begs the question have I fully exploited my peg

Think I need a few 'practice' sessions down the cut adopting some of your principles

Many thanks for taking the time and trouble to pen this article - worthy of inclusion in one of the angling press

Thanks,
It's nice to know someone is interested.
To me it is a forgotten or lost talent.
As I don't use it anymore and there are hardly any matches left were it can be used. I'm self taught, so it was learnt through practice. The best way to learn any method is to teach yourself. Listening to others tends to only confuse the issue. As each person you talk to has a different approach. As a teenager in the 70's I used to read everything I could find. But then went out with that imformation and devised my own way. Billy Makin springs to mind, he used to write in Coarse fisherman in the 70's. I read his articules like they were the bible of canal fishing. Years later (in non bloodworm matches)I was competing against him, up until he packed up.
Once I was working out near Watford and knew there was a Wed open at Croxley. I decided to skip work for a couple of hours and go for a look.
I came across Billy. He was fishing a 14ft rod to hand with squatt and waggler. Very similar to the approach I have mentioned earlier. He owned up to seeing me do it at a recent open and decided to copy it. He obviously taught me well through those earlier articles, well enough to teach him something back.
Michael

#37

It's nice to know someone is interested.

I'm sure there are many more than just me interested in your input into the topic Backhand - its just that some are a little more shy and retiring when it comes to using the keyboard

In fact, this topic has been read another 40odd times since last night

two shakes · #38

It's nice to know someone is interested.

I'm sure there are many more than just me interested in your input into the topic Backhand - its just that some are a little more shy and retiring when it comes to using the keyboard

In fact, this topic has been read another 40odd times since last night

Very true Tone,there are a few on here that are sly and retarted,,,,,,,,i mean shy and retiring

Great read Michael.

LarryTeepot · #39

im not shy.......but suffering from ice syndrome.....cany get the punch through the ice

lots of good info here..thats for sure

Guest · #40

T K were is your club based?
Which canal's do you fish?
Michael