pike in matches

me · #1

With fishing being so hard this time of year and seeing match results were all you see is DNW ect (especially on canals) as made me wounder why the rule stands that pike can't count in weights. I don't no any clubs that allow pike to count yet in the winter pike still get caught.

sibeck · #2

they count in our club (st frances) m8 but with all the contraversy they cause their being banned at the next agm......... i personaly believe that if the fish was caught legal (no lures etc) then why shouldnt they count....... any angler that can get a pike in on 0'6 line, 24 hook and no2 elastic surely deserves it, do they not?

#3

they count in our matches simon.but only if they are caught accidentally ,you are not allowed to fish a lure or fish dead baits and the such ,if one takes a roach on the wy in then fair enough and likewise if you get one take a maggot or corn then that is ok as well.
cant remember the last time it happened in one of our club matches ,but i had it happen to me on a winter league when two blokes in my section both landed pike that had taken small roach on the way in ,they both framed in the overall and i finnished one place out of it .i got a section win by default

me · #4

these are the type of inncedents im on about. Im not on about Dodge turning up for one of woodhouses matches with his speicemen hunting gear targeting 20lbers. Ive heard in reports of matches, pleasure sessions (including cashmores) that a jack was caught, or a jack was attacking a blade roach or skimmer or a pike was attacking the keepnet ect. These are proof that a fish is in your swim so as long as you only use the approved tackle allowed for that match ie pole, single point hook (no trebles), line (no braid), float (no controller floats), bait, worm/maggy/corn ect ect i can't see no harm in being able to count any landed jacks/pike. I just think a lot of anglers but alot of work into getting all their tackle, bait ect together, get to the venue, pay their money and fish for 5hrs not to get a single bite when there are fish there that you purposly avoid catching because if you do land one then it will not count.
Personaly i beleive a fish is a fish wether it be a dace, roach, pike, barbel ect and as long as you catch the fish and land it by using the agreed match tactics ie, pole/rod, line/ float and hook then any fish should count in your final weight. A few fisheries with lindholme (doncaster) being a main one put trout in their lakes in the winter months so any one who fishes their lakes in the winter still have chances of catching as the trout still feed in the winter.

#5

This is always an interesting topic.

In the open matches I run I have always barred pike and zander. With up to, say, 700 fishing, there is a lot of money at stake and anything that rules out any temptation to leave a roach or such like on the hook has to be in the right spirit of the match. After all there are specific pike matches about that do cater for that.

The issue does become a bit more complex in club events. I agree a pike can and are caught "accidentally" but it is a very grey area because a lot of times you just have to accept the captor's version of events. In Club matches some will allow pike and some will not. This is a different point as to open matches as generally these are a lot more on the friendly side and big cash winnings don't really come into it.

To find a fairly good set of Rules there is one on the Angling Trust website. You may have to adjust a few to suit your club, eg the pike one, mobiles, whatever. However the template is there.

me · #6

Bill Y i fully understand and accept what you are saying in big open matches (like you say were 700 people are fishing) are theres a lot at stake in them with a lot of competivness ect, but i was thinking more in the lines of little knock up matches which are more about the banter than making your bank manager happy. In a post by sibeck in the cashmore section(this isn't a knock at cashmores or TK or the way they run their matches but is just as an example) on about yesterdays gruller match he mentioned he dnw along with 13 others and he and mark v both comented how thick the ice was. FOr all those who fished had to make the effort to clean the ice/ snow off their cars, get to the match, break the ice, fish a match ect when there are plenty of jacks/pike in that stretch of cut that if had of been caught couldn't of been counted.

sibeck · #7

this is always a great subject to debate....... now if i was to work my

off for say 6lb of joker fish only to be beat by someone with a 7lb pike i wouldn't be to happy

but if i was to catch the 7lb pike and win the match id be over the moon..... but i would feel a little guilty for the bloke who caught the 6lb of roach........ well till my second pint out the winnings anyway

me · #8

sibeck aint that the same if you caught a carp or even as anytime in the year ? If you work you butt of for 4 1/2 hrs catching caster or maggy roach and i sit there waiting for mr carp or tench to come along and take my bait. If mr carp or tench does take my bait and i beat your 41/2 hrs of silvers with 1 fish wheres the difference.
Im not saying let lures or pike baits be used but what im saying is if like yesterday match you'd had a maggy on and mr jack takes it and you land it,the jack should count, or if you catch a blade roach and whilst you are shipping in mr jack takes the blade the jack should count. The no jerking rule could still be put in place to stop any one putting a lob worm on and jerking it about.
At the end of the day small club matches are more about the banter rather than the megga buck so you should be able to trust your fellow club men not to abuse the rules..

#9

An interesting topic, no doubt with many opinions, of which some of mine are now ‘mixed’ to say the least.

In the past I’ve won with a pike

- remember a club match (Harrisons) on the Wyrley & Essington at B’hills when with an hour left I started bagging roach on the caster, catching up those earlier tench catches. Suddenly my peg switched off……couldn’t buy a bite for 10 mins or more….. then the float goes under and I’m into somewhere a little more ‘wilder’. Play it out and land it - it’s a pike taken ‘fairly’. I’m called a jammy so and so

by those guys with the tincas as the pike - only about the 4lb mark - gets me the end result by a few ounces. Didn’t feel one iota of guilt, I didn’t fish for it, and felt it was some form of remuneration for a ‘ruined’ swim when I was catching so well.

Similarly I’ve also been beaten by them

on a Cashmores match - eg the one taken by Bobby Leek on a Cashmores match on the Salwarpe, where he joked after that he’d had it on fish shaped luncheon meat. I’d got no doubt it was taken ‘fairly’, just the same my fluked one above.

Cashmore’s fish what I would term ‘loosely’ to what were the NFA model rules and ‘introduced’ the pike ban at an AGM a few years ago when it appeared in those.

Since that time I’ve had to ‘ban’ pike on a couple of occasions - there was HaHa’s one taken on the Trent when the Midland Angler camera’s were present, MGB’s jack that took a liking to his sweetcorn on the clubs canal etc .

I say ‘I’ve’ had to ban them, not really me, just ‘me’ applying the clubs ruling on the subject.

As originally the majority of people fishing the TK grueller series were Cashmores members the ‘rule’ followed into these matches……..and likewise members have had pike ruled out on my ‘knock ups’ - remember Veste on the Outlet at Rugeley PS - he got a couple out on the one match, he would have walked it……… but we were all ‘singing from the same hymn sheet’. It’s just that any new faces were probably not aware of this ‘rule’ and would only have cause to ask when confronted, like on Saturday, with the situation.

Obviously racked with guilt

about all these disqualifications, two AGM’s ago I proposed a motion to rescind the ‘no pike’ ruling, based on my personal sentiments when I had accidentally caught pike. Don’t think I even got a seconder for it and the ‘no pike’ rule stood.

Whilst I’ve obviously been prepared to relent on the subject and allow them, this topic has provoked a couple of memories I have that could lead to possible dispute and ill feeling. I have in the past witnessed club members deliberated slowly bringing in small roach, ‘playing’ them left and right because they’ve said they’ve a pike in the peg.

Fair?

Within the rules if that pike snaffles a one ounce roach that’s took a minute to land?

Also seen a bunch of lob worms dragged around with the same intent.

Fair?

What’s the difference between dragging a worm around for a perch? That’s probably what a captor would say he was after if a rogue pike had a go.

On reflection, perhaps I was wrong to seek to rescind the no pike rule after all…………..probably makes my life 'easier' having the no pike rule

#10

Yes, pike recollections

I remember running a FMS League match on the Trent and Mersey Canal around Stoke quite a few years ago. The Rules of this League, (not mine I may add) clearly stated that no pike or zander to be weighed in. Leading up to the match a lot of pike were released into the canal from one of the local pools and several were caught.
I received no complaints from anyone afterwards following the payout.
One 'wobbly cheeks ole', and I don't use that phrase lightly, sent a letter to Angler's Mail explaining how skilfully he had landed two pike and he thought they should count. He even considered I should loose my post at AM because of this. The AM contacted me about this, (it caused quite a laugh that anone should stoop to this level) and the letter this 'arseole' sent to AM was quickly dispatched into the bin. Great running matches 'in it? I only did this League to keep it going at the time

Not too long back I fished a National on Joff's cut at Loughborough. I was doing well and ended up with a high individual placing and a pick up. I had all small fish and with an hour to go I was shipping a tiny skimmer across the swim and everything 'locked'. I had hooked a pike and it started moving towards me. The cut was very clear and I could see that this pike had just got hold of the skimmer, it was 4-5 lb (the pike that is). Anyway I kept my cool and decided to try and net it just after it went passed me; ie net it from the tail rather than the mouth as I felt sure it would let go otherwise. I got the net too it and it let go so I had no pike.
That fish meant I would have framed and certainly picked up well over £1000 in that National. I must be an 'oddball' because, thinking about it after, I didn't regret not netting that pike and wouldn't have liked picking up any amount of money anyway with a pike although they were allowed then.
I did have quite a good 'pick up' as it was but I honestly don't like the idea of pike counting in open matches. Everyone to their own I suppose ::) ::) ::)

me · #11

That fish meant I would have framed and certainly picked up well over £1000 in that National. I must be an 'oddball' because, thinking about it after, I didn't regret not netting that pike and wouldn't have liked picking up any amount of money anyway with a pike although they were allowed then.

Bill what would of happend if it had been a carp, tench or cat fish ?

#12

Can't fairly say 'owt about catfish; never caught one, never even seen one.
If it was a tench or a carp I would have tried to have got them out, why not?
I just do not think pike should count. I well remember the Gladding Masters on Holme Pierrepoint. It was ridiculous; when anglers are putting silver paper and even bits of carrot on their hooks, skill went straight out of the window, not for me mate, not interested. I think that ended that as a major competition.

You can't really compare carp and tench with pike. I reckon most pike in matches are caught by guys leaving roach or other fish on the hook when they suspect one is around. While this may still be allowed here I consider it to be barbaric. We are probably behind the times a bit here, live baiting is not even allowed in Scotland.

I have nothing against pike whatsoever; they do help to create very well balanced fisheries.

sibeck · #13

Bill what would of happend if it had been a carp, tench or cat fish ?

cat fish on the cannock extension

me · #14

cat fish on the cannock extension

sibeck, i wouldn't laugh to much as there was a rumour that cat fish were dumped in the wyrley/essington, then i think it was last year (Im sure TK will put this right if i get it wrong) MGB was driving his boat along the extention when something hit his propeller and damaged it. Just after that innocedent a cat fish was reported to be found dead in the same area with a chunk out of it

.

#15

Here you go Sibeck.....................

http://www.maggotdrowning.com/forum/top ... C_ID=66837

Also talking to Stormin Norman some time back, he told me he caught his first ever barbel out of the Extension back in the 70's - who knows what's in there

me · #16

cheers tk, i knew you'd know were the topic was. I was trying to find it on this site

#17

TK.
Going back donkeys of years there used to be very regular proper pike matches on the Cannock Extension.
I well remember somebody trying an ordinary open there (I went to it) and despite a reasonable turnout and a few roach clearly visible nobody caught 'owt, I think one roach won. In fact most were walking about and there used to be loads of Jyppos about in caras in the adjopining fields who nicked loads of kit and emptied most of the parked cars of everything they could get there hands on. All manner of kit was nicked as anglers 'walked'. Just wondered if anyone else rembered this but it must have been in the 60s or very early 70s.

Happy days

#18

remember that lot from when i was a kid area was a no go if u didnt get eveyting nicked you ended up running for ya life wicker creel and knotty keepnet bouncing off ya back lol

joffmiester · #19

we used to let pike count years ago but when a very famous angler won a winter league with 3 for 25lb it was the biggest talking point for years so we stopped allowing them

#20

Going back donkeys of years there used to be very regular proper pike matches on the Cannock Extension

Yep Bill, remember the pike qualifiers that used to be run on there back in the late 70s and probably early 80s

nobody caught 'owt

Nowts changed on that front then

used to be loads of Jyppos about in caras in the adjopining fields who nicked loads of kit and emptied most of the parked cars

Glad that's changed though