PLEASE EXPLAIN

ian_kent · #61

The SENSAS Boston team I run have just decided against fishing the eastern winter league due to it being teams of 10..
Bare in mind we have a squad of 16 capable anglers.

We could guarantee 6/7 maybe 8 every week, but 10 just couldn't do..

I think it's down to people's working life at the minute, what with some lads having Sunday night shifts etc..

#62

Chris vandershandy has too much love for Dorking lol

#63

Chris vandershandy has too much love for Dorking lol

LOL Lloydy I love too hate Dorking (in the best possible way)

Just stating facts

#64

I love too hate Man Utd and the Tory party

#65

Just like the Tory party and Man united, Dorking are by far away the best team in the country

joffmiester · #66

Just like the Tory party and Man united, Dorking are by far away the best team in the country

thats a rap-a-round for sure

NoCarpPlease · #67

Everyone years ago moaned like crappity smack that match fishing should be more professional, now every crappity smack don`t want to fish a professional match . Don`t make sense to me, forget what the ATs taking for the moment (I must add that the AT stewards at the weekend were there for the love of the sport and never got paid just their expenses, which I have on good authority).
Seven thousand pound to the winning team to cover the costs of the World club champs and anglers bottled out.
Some teams may have not wanted to fish due to funds BUT I know teams did not want to fish against Barnsley and Dorking because they are too good.
This why team fishing is going lady lumps up IMO no one wants to learn anymore.

Chris,
I think that you've hit the nail obliquely with your first sentence. Those at the top of the pile (you might call them vested interests?) with a voice in the media and committees were certainly calling for more professionalism .... but in the end team fishing has eaten itself!

From my perspective, aside from all the other contributory factors that also apply to individual competitions (carp puddles, petrol prices, cost of competing, alternative leisure activities, etc.) there are 4 compounding issues with team fishing. Bearing in mind that i haven't done serious team fishing in 18 years - but can see it from both sides of the fence.

The key theme is that decent sized fishing matches (team or individual) are completely dependent on the less successful people turning up week in, week out in all weathers. To succeed in this you need to provide at least
a) some chance of relative success
b) reasonable chance of a decent days fishing

IMO team dominance is a bit of a red herring - how many years did 12 teams of 12 turn up to the Surrey WL to get beaten up by Dorking?

so my 4 issues
1. team practice - the more committed teams tip the balance too far and also can degrade the fishing on narrow canals and harder venues
2. increased team pools and section 2nd pools - takes the chance of a "red letter day" away from people who are realistically only fishing for an individual result (the majority of us). Note - the money element is not absolute - just relative to the entry fee/pool (as highlighted by many above)
3. "fair" venues for team matches .... again reducing the chance for the ordinary joe to get a section or main list prize.
4. The Drennan Super League. A serious summer competition aside from the National meant much more year round commitment to team fishing - which many people just didn't enjoy and voted with their feet year round to go to individual and local competition. Remember that for most of us the winter league was 6 guaranteed 144 peg opens, rather than a team match.

I regret that it's likely to be beyond the point of no return now .... we needed to look after the 3rd & 4th tier teams - rather than the premier and aspirational. I'd suggest they're not going to come back.
The inevitable end result is an elite of 4 to 6 teams - with maybe 10 or so more able to compete. We've got the "professional" premier league that (some) people were calling for - but lost a lot of what made match fishing in the UK great along the way ....

Shame really!!

big_cup · #68

Everyone years ago moaned like crappity smack that match fishing should be more professional, now every crappity smacker don`t want to fish a professional match . Don`t make sense to me, forget what the ATs taking for the moment (I must add that the AT stewards at the weekend were there for the love of the sport and never got paid just their expenses, which I have on good authority).
Seven thousand pound to the winning team to cover the costs of the World club champs and anglers bottled out.
Some teams may have not wanted to fish due to funds BUT I know teams did not want to fish against Barnsley and Dorking because they are too good.
This why team fishing is going lady lumps up IMO no one wants to learn anymore.

Chris,
I think that you've hit the nail obliquely with your first sentence. Those at the top of the pile (you might call them vested interests?) with a voice in the media and committees were certainly calling for more professionalism .... but in the end team fishing has eaten itself!

From my perspective, aside from all the other contributory factors that also apply to individual competitions (carp puddles, petrol prices, cost of competing, alternative leisure activities, etc.) there are 4 compounding issues with team fishing. Bearing in mind that i haven't done serious team fishing in 18 years - but can see it from both sides of the fence.

The key theme is that decent sized fishing matches (team or individual) are completely dependent on the less successful people turning up week in, week out in all weathers. To succeed in this you need to provide at least
a) some chance of relative success
b) reasonable chance of a decent days fishing

IMO team dominance is a bit of a red herring - how many years did 12 teams of 12 turn up to the Surrey WL to get beaten up by Dorking?

so my 4 issues
1. team practice - the more committed teams tip the balance too far and also can degrade the fishing on narrow canals and harder venues
2. increased team pools and section 2nd pools - takes the chance of a "red letter day" away from people who are realistically only fishing for an individual result (the majority of us). Note - the money element is not absolute - just relative to the entry fee/pool (as highlighted by many above)
3. "fair" venues for team matches .... again reducing the chance for the ordinary joe to get a section or main list prize.
4. The Drennan Super League. A serious summer competition aside from the National meant much more year round commitment to team fishing - which many people just didn't enjoy and voted with their feet year round to go to individual and local competition. Remember that for most of us the winter league was 6 guaranteed 144 peg opens, rather than a team match.

I regret that it's likely to be beyond the point of no return now .... we needed to look after the 3rd & 4th tier teams - rather than the premier and aspirational. I'd suggest they're not going to come back.
The inevitable end result is an elite of 4 to 6 teams - with maybe 10 or so more able to compete. We've got the "professional" premier league that (some) people were calling for - but lost a lot of what made match fishing in the UK great along the way ....

Shame really!!

Sounds close enough to me. I have to agree that team fishing will not make a come back IMO ( especially anything 8/10 a side ) Perhaps smaller numbers might spur some interest for a while but great teams will only dominate more then, as for example instead of fishing against one class team of 10 in your region, they will have the strength and numbers to enter 3, 4, 5 teams of 4 which then makes things even harder for the average team / angler. Its a shame as the better anglers / teams that put time and effort in and deserve there success, become there own enemy and average anglers choose to move away from the scene

It appears now that angling has almost gone full circle and people are happy forming a local run small club and fishing for there own money on waters close by whilst taking it serious enough to want to win but still just out for a laugh and some craaaack with people they have known for years. Than spending time, money and effort trying to compete in team competitions all over the country

joffmiester · #69

Smaller teams will finish off team fishing fact you are only going to spread anglers out dorking Barnsley and starlet top six anglers will be incredibly strong sections will become longer then teams that couldn't or thought they couldn't compete will finish ending all team fishing as we know it it has to be addressed with teams of ten

Statler · #70

It's OK wanting more professionalism, but the vast majority of those taking part are amateurs.
Occasionally we can turn over the top teams but not very often.
Changes to national rules, in particular the random draw, may well have made things fairer but it in effect removed any chance of the lesser teams winning. Since the random draw came in how often as one of the smaller teams won?
It is not about fishing against the best - most of us enjoy that challenge, but it is about giving the lesser teams a chance and giving them something to fish for.
Without the smaller teams you don't have a competition!
I am afraid the halcyon days of team fishing are gone and sadly will not return. I count myself fortunate to have been part of it in its heyday.

#71

Without the smaller teams you don't have a competition!

NAIL ON THE HEAD for me

the smaller teams are the life blood of our sport , they are all or have been scared off by the so called "professionalism" and increased costs that have taken over for a number of years now . The smaller teams are usually club teams who,s clubs own a high percentage of the natural waters we use for competitions . Without these match anglers and teams we have virtually nothing ....... the greedy William the Conquerors who have taken over our sport dont give a flying crappity smack though !

Match angling is a WORKING MANS SPORT but we are getting crappity smack over by bell ends and greedy bastards.

joffmiester · #72

Yes I agree smaller teams but not smaller sized teams of 4,5 or 6 anglers

#73

Without the smaller teams you don't have a competition!

NAIL ON THE HEAD for me the smaller teams are the life blood of our sport , they are all or have been scared off by the so called "professionalism" and increased costs that have taken over for a number of years now . The smaller teams are usually club teams who,s clubs own a high percentage of the natural waters we use for competitions . Without these match anglers and teams we have virtually nothing ....... the greedy William the Conquerors who have taken over our sport dont give a flying crappity smack though !

Match angling is a WORKING MANS SPORT but we are getting crappity smack over by bell ends and greedy bastards.

spot on dodge

#74

Joff teams struggle like crappity smack to get 10, you only need 10 to fish nationals,and A.T winter league, no one is that interested in either that much ::)

#75

Northwest, can't get teams of ten to fishanything other than a national..
teams of 6-8 is the way forward.
Some of the big teams have raped all the smaller teams of there best anglers and now have riddiculous size squads of 18 plus anglers.
And they wonder why team fishing has gone lady lumps up.
Won't be long before all the smaller teams of anglers won't compete against them at all..
Sad but true. :(
It's a difficult one for the young anglers coming through because it's only natural to want to fish in the top teams as to better there skills.
But the way its going there will be no regional team matches for them to fish therefore they will have to travel miles each time to compete. Now unless these kids have parents that are well off and can hand out cash or have the time to drive them to events it willbe financially impossible for them.
I just think looking after the up and coming anglers is important in keeping team fishing going for years to come.
Totally understand dodges theory on William the conquerers all in it for themselves dodge!

We need regional events like it used to be!

joffmiester · #76

Queenie i have thought long and hard about this everyone knows what is best
It needs the industry to come knocking at the door the carrot has to be big enough and anglers have to prepare themselves and not moan at the first hurdle
i'm willing to give up team fishing to run a series to get it off the ground i can't do it on my own but have a couple that are willing to help the seeds have been sown and time and time again we have asked for venues and the best time of year for these venues its just seems no one is interested
i feel i have a good 10 years left i might as well fish individualy as all this talk is going nowhere
next year i will be chasing the river fest paying over the odds to do it but hay thats what it takes

#77

all this talk is going nowhere

Think your right there mate.
Its easy for everyone to say how it should all be done but it's pointless as nobody will take the organising on anyway.

Even when you do your best people will always moan that it should of been ran this way or that way or 'you shouldn't of pegged there'

You need thick skin to be an organiser

#78

Once team fishing drops below 10 man for winter league I'll probably pack it in, 6 man events ain't proper team matches on my eyes when it comes to the top event

joffmiester · #79

To be fair Lloydy I've had enough we have tried time and time again to get something off the ground yet the top lads in the top teams seam to think everything is fine
A good move for Rob Wootton going to Starlets but this will have a knock on effect starlets dorking and Barnsley will be the closest teams to have full time anglers the smaller teams will just drop away quicker than you think !!! How many anglers do we need in teams

big_cup · #80

Points raised about young anglers coming through and wanting to fish for big teams

I believe even then it is a very small minority, young anglers just aren't interested in fishing natural venues at all. The reason for this is as very young kids all they want to do is catch fish, and by that I mean " catching " fish not " fishing " to catch fish, therefore they want to be on a commercial. This I have learnt first hand, my lad is 9 and although he has his moments on coms when he wants to climb trees or fire bricks at Wogga etc, he will sit down for periods at a time and fish. I was brought up on canals and rivers so I still take him to these as I did on Sunday but his concentration span is far far less, even though at the weekend he was catching a good stamp of roach and perch on a very regular basis, it just doesn't tick there boxes. They then grow up into teenagers and if there dick doesn't rule there head these days what options are they looking at???? 20+ years ago they would be looking at a huge match scene on natural venues where 500 / £600 was an average win on many open matches ranging from 100+ to maybe 300 peggers on certain venues, a team scene that every young angler wanted to join and be in " the best team ", 6 divisions of national sides with a total of some 500 teams. These nationals came with a chance of winning thousands of pounds especially if you had backed yourself with the bookie and truly were events to remember. With probably the exception of the embassy match, the above events were the biggies. Back to the teenager of today, they are met with festival after festival all over the country on commercials, each with its own guaranteed 1k, 3k, 5k etc prize. They then see fish O and a package that includes the chance of winning 30k, match this with a guaranteed 50k final prize that may raise to 100k given the entrance numbers. Combine this to the fact of the cost of living for the youth of today with mortgages like a ton a lead around the neck, are they going to fish the cut for a team where the average day costs some 40 / £50 to win a £30 section with a couple a kilo if they fish extremely well, or maybe £120 ish to win match if they fish exceptionally well? Or fish a com with a few pellets, tin a corn and meat that even with £20+ on pools will only cost em £30, chance of winning the same £100+ for winning, usually a golden peg or two up for grabs enticing a chance of £150+, catching in excess of a ton of fish and all the time grabbing vital experience for the next big " qualifier "??? When you look deep in to the facts, like it or hate it there is only one way the circuit is going at the moment I'm afraid